Who is the guest in Episode 89?

Dan Lucas of Pest Smart Solutions & Consultancy.

What practical startup topics are discussed?

VAT registration, vans, equipment, insurance and marketing.

089:Starting a Pest Control Business: Taking the Leap with Dan Lucas

Transcribed automatically

hello and welcome to pest perspectives another recording i'm not live i've got used to not saying we're not live anymore but uh thanks everyone for tuning in on spotify apple please press follow leave us a review to do with more reviews because i know a lot of you are listening just come on it doesn't it does it cost just review the podcast helps get the rankings that helps people see the podcast more it does so so this week we have on dan lucas rom hold on right from pest smart solutions and consultancy but before i actually say hello i've got to do a mention to the sponsors so thank you to the sponsors powered now a business business management software company designed to help professionals streamline their operations operations and spend less time on paperwork in essence it can do anything you can take payments uh even if you listen if electrician plumber it does everything um when it comes to that it does all your paperwork digital paperwork might I add but yeah it's quite good so there'll be a link or you can just type powered now in on Google or chat GPT or whatever you use to search but yeah thanks for sponsoring it helps pay for the podcast all the tools and cameras and microphones

that the podcast needs to improve also thank you to Periscope CFO which is basically Dan Treanor CFO and author of author of Pest Control by Numbers, helping busy pest control businesses become more profitable, sustainable and successful. So yeah, thank you Dan for your support. So this week on Pest Perspectives we have on Dan Lucas, hold on, let's do that again from Pest Smart Solutions and consultancy. How are we doing? All good, Sean. Thank you very much for having me on again, buddy. That's good.

This is the second attempt, everyone. We tried yesterday. But technology let us down. And today, he's having to deal with his mobile phone. But that's why this software is good, because it works on anything. It does. So I don't know if any of you watched the podcast at Pest Tech, but we were on the last slot of the day. I had a panel of Carl Robinson from HF Bird. Let's get it right. I had Matt O'Donnell from IX5 Pest Control, and I had Dan Lucas from PestSmart Solutions and Consultancy on the seminar.

Now, I will admit, I was nervous because I think a lot of us may have been. Yeah, definitely think so. I think we all sort of relaxed into it a little bit when it got going, didn't we? I think I should have sat down like you lot because I think that's what made it worse. But no, it was a good conversation. Thanks to anyone who came and watched it. I did put the clips all together in the podcast. I don't know. Some of you that have listened to the podcast may have listened to that, but I did warn you beforehand, these are just clips.

So it ain't going to be the best, but it's something. So hopefully people like them. So, and you offer some great perspectives on pest perspectives. Oh, yeah, no, definitely. I think it was great to be sat next to some real giants of the industry. You know what I mean? It was Carl and Matt both came up with some excellent solutions. Is it Matt that used to be an environmental health officer? Is that right? Correct. And he also, he is one. He's been on the podcast. We'll have to do a roundtable soon.

And I'll get some of them on. Because I've asked Carl, he's up for it. On the podcast, though.

Yeah, Matt does actually, his company does courses for EHOs. So he advertises it. And EHOs from like, they're down in Northampton. Yeah. and EHOs from all over the country come to the event because it teaches them how to do their job better but yeah from a pest point of view kind of thing yeah because a lot of them I'll be honest the odd few are quite good but a lot of them don't know what they're talking about when they tell you to do something they haven't got a diddly squat what they're talking about because about I've listened to a few podcasts where EHOs have been on and many years ago it used to be apparently two day course within the EHO they reckon it's like half a day if you're lucky now on anything to do a pest control it's really slimmed down you know so that's why Matt runs that course but yeah he used to be in EHO so that's his big advantage but he does run courses specifically for it he does so they can become better at their job yeah awesome because he said There are people from all over the country, people from London, all sorts.

But yeah, that's his pest control company. Yeah. He does that. As I said, getting some of his perspective and Carl's perspective, I felt I was learning stuff while I was there as well, mate. So it was, yeah, it was a good session. Yeah, it was. I mean, yeah, it was something new. I have suggested for next year that I'm putting it forward, that I'm not saying Pest Perspectives will be doing it but if they could have more discussion little many shows as well alongside talks that might be much better but we'll see what happens.

No, definitely. I mean, the whole day was a cracking one really. Did you like it? It was great to get around the stands. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was fantastic. So I can see all the hard work that you guys at the MPTA put in. It was a really good show. I mean, I always go with these things with um a mindset of i want to go and do specific things while i was there so in the back of the mind i had i really need to learn some more about um mesh mesh screening and stuff and how to measure it and yeah so safety screens was i was i was bang over there and also i just had a bit more wanted a bit more clarity on on some bats and and bits and pieces like that so i think when you when you go to these events it can almost be a little bit overwhelming because there's a store here still there and I think you have to go with a little bit of a plan about actually what do I want to get out today what am I looking for and hit those first rather than sort of just be blindsided by it all no you are right I mean I I only went to a few stands because I was busy but you are right because I missed a load of stands I didn't realize that were there yeah a lot of time because it's almost like I have to plan your day don't you a little bit well yeah did you have any stands apart from the safety screens do you have any other stands you went to look at you like look off or did you oh yeah i went down to i can't remember the guys that make the glorious spray do you see that automatic hand pump that they're making so it's like you

screw it onto your five litre glorious sprayer and it keeps the pressure in there so you're always at two bar when you're spraying or set to whatever pressure that you need i have something similar to this okay i have it for birchmeyer okay so with the dust oh i've got one for the dust but i do believe that if i want to transfer it and i use birchmeyer from i don't use i use a gloria i do yeah but i i only seen that because i was watching i was up helping on the demonstration floor and I'll be honest going to give a shout out to Kill Germ because early in the morning we found out that the man who was doing the demonstrations for the sprayer that we had booked in, he had let us know the previous Friday that he wasn't very well and that morning he cancelled and Mark Wemmer, we went to see Kill Germ at breakfast and they stood up to the plate and said, yeah, we'll do it.

We've got a spare Gloria. And they did it. And when they went through it, they actually showed off the Gloria. So I know what you're on about. Yeah, no, it's a cracking bit of kit. And it's, you know, sort of obviously from Alex Wade's talk and stuff where he was talking about all the chemicals and stuff. You know, applying these chemicals at that pressure bar is key, isn't it? You know, it's part of the whole way that it works. And to have to stop and just, you know, every couple of minutes. I think something like that's revolutionary.

I do think there's like the next big thing is just around the corner, like equipment-wise. I can feel it. I feel like... I've got to be honest. We bought this Birchmeyer. I know I made a post on it on Pest Perspectives. Completely blew up. You could imagine that everyone was telling me, what a waste of money that is. You don't need that. Just use a car tyre pump. Yeah. When I get that, but it literally has paid for itself this summer. Because what people don't get is, like, if you pump a DR5, that's what we use for dust,

you can eventually get tennis elbow and you're snackering. But what also people don't appreciate is, oh, yeah, just do it in your car. A lot of houses I do what's nests on, they've got rid of the gate. There's a garage there and you've got to walk through the house. Yeah, yeah. So you can go through the house, no pressure, do the nest, de-pressure it, walk through the house again. So things like that, don't get me wrong, it was in the region of 200 quid, but it was worth it. But it's nice to see new things.

Everyone goes, well, it's not really new. It is. No, it's new to me. It's making your life – this is what people don't get. Things that make your life easier help you do your job better. Yes. I know it's so-so lazy, but that's the way it is. You don't have to buy it. Don't buy it then. No. But, yeah, I'm glad you like that product. Is it coming out soon? I believe so. I think the gentleman said it was January. January it'll be available on Kill Jam. Oh, okay, nice. Yes, go and get it from there if you want it.

I might be the first in the queue, Sean. You want to go on the waiting list. You say, ring them, say, I want the first one. yeah oh the first box exactly but no was there anything else you've seen it's just it's sort of just bobbing around looking at bits and pieces i went over to uh talk to the drainage guys um oh wow i can't remember what that ends something oh okay there was a couple of places yeah you did um those are the guys that run the training courses and stuff because you know it's something that quite interests me and i think it's something Which training courses?

The Drain Scan training courses. I can't remember what they're. Oh. MP. Hang on. Something or other. Hold on. You're on about the NADC, isn't you? That's the one. Yeah, that's the one. He's been on the podcast. Really? Is that Mike, is it, that's been on the podcast? No, it's Martin. Martin. Martin. Yeah, Martin. Martin Beatty. That's it. He's been on the podcast. And I didn't know he was there, you know. Right at the end of the day, he said, sure. he shook hands i said sorry i didn't i didn't know you were here i'm that busy i don't see a lot half the time but yeah he uh yeah they had a stand because they're trying to get in more pest controllers and um i think it's it's a vital skill isn't it you know rats and drainage go hand in hand and you know i feel like i feel like it's almost like being able to offer that full package of we can treat your rats but we can also scan your drains for you is is is future for a lot of businesses i think um we have to be you have to go to input the time in and do the training course yeah courses yeah yeah it's the way because they want you to be a proper drain surveyor that will be.

So there's a lot of, but I've heard things and there's things coming in the future, I can't say, but there is things that can be quite lucrative.

Yeah, there is things. Yeah, it will be good for a lot of businesses, it will. We've got a drain camera, but it's nothing on the level of what they would have, so we will just have a little look not that anyone's wanted us to recently but i we have a little look it's not what i'd call a proper drain survey it's i'll be honest i'm not i'm i'm one of these that sort of on on the facebook reels and you know it's all these uh disasters that have happened via drain scans and having to remove all the rods and stuff like that um so it is something that i'm interested in but i don't think i'd do it unless i had the you know went went through them properly you know the proper inspection cameras and stuff because i'd just be terrified of uh what's it called the the end of the bit the probe is it or something losing probable go slow i saw but but yeah no it's it's good it is i like the mouse the mouse stop stand because i got chatting to him it's a family business you know his dad started it 36 years ago and to be fair i i i i seen him a day before setting up i went and introduced myself and he says you come back tomorrow because i said i like the product but only found you in march at pestex in london i said he said i'll give if you he says you're willing to do a testimonial i says yeah i'll give you a new a tub of our on we've got a

new fire retardant version oh for free but also he gave us this awesome um cork gun but But it was powerful. He said it's worth 30 quid. It was worth the testimonial just to get that for free. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was. But it's a good product, Mastoffice. Yeah. They're not endorsed by the podcast. I just like them. Yeah. I also went over to the excluder stand. I really like that stuff as well. That's cracking stuff. The almost wire wall that they put inside the rubber seals. Yeah. Yeah. Great, great product.

I also saw that he'd also brought out a new product, which is like a flexible metal, which is like really thin sheets. They put over things. That looked cool as well. Yeah. Ben's been on the podcast a few weeks ago. I met him. I didn't see him at Pest Tech to talk to, but I seen him a night before in the bar. Oh, awesome. So I said hello. I did. Yeah, excluded. I meant to go there. I meant to go a lot of places, but when you open it's difficult. is the problem short if you as i said earlier if you don't have the day planned that you just you think ah missed out on doing that missed out on doing that i got my i got a lot of my free i really wanted to get there for alex's wade chemical um yeah it was good i missed it completely i was i was good about that one it's good there was people passing tennis balls down the line he was trying to basically convey how it works yeah and he was like tennis balls down the line and he had people running around and all sorts it was it was quite good when it comes to getting your cpd and stuff isn't it like more interactive stuff like that oh no i fully agree i do it was something unique it wasn't even said i've not got any slides it's just me talking yeah just like myself i had no slides i said to the bloke i ain't got no slides to talk but no that was a a very good talk it was yeah but what i caught i caught a lot of it it was good yeah it was definitely but in the end some of the pest controllers started cheating because they were supposed to they were supposed to pass the tennis ball down the line through the chairs oh right and he laughed and said typical press controller some of them started flinging it down the middle the middle aisle

it's competition exactly but no no i thought it was good um i had a lot of good feedback on it as far as i know everyone liked it but the new the newest bit was the wasp area it's never had demonstration and demonstration area before so that was the floor below the seminars was the one there was demonstrations on there was even bed bug dogs demonstrations at certain times i missed that one i should have i think i think i was on actually on on the door at that point but there was stands you could go to there was for each one um so that's something different but i do believe they're all on the website they're advertising that area is coming back for next year already no so as to say it's more interactive more hands-on isn't it you know that's that's where pest controller strengths are we are hands-on people so the more the more stuff like that the better isn't it yeah no it's true it is it's um yeah i think it helps it adds a new layer it does to the show because last year it was basically two floors of seminars and the issue was you've got so many people and then people are fighting to see what do you see what I'm saying there was cases where the top floor was rammed and the bottom

and the floor below had like four people so it's a bit but it worked better this year but I'll have to see what they think for next year change of venue is that correct or yeah Yes, it's the NAEC Stonely Hall 2. It is. Yes, it's the middle of a car park and a big, big car park. I've not been there to have a look, but it's a venue where a lot of, I spoke to Graham from Powered Now, and they do tons of events all over the country because they do nearly every industry they're into for their software.

and he said it's becoming the go-to place for a lot of events. He said it's a great venue. It is. But there's no Asda across the road or anything like that. There is at Milton Keynes. No, definitely not. There is a hotel 200 yards from the venue, though. In a couple... Yeah, there is. Yeah. There is. Well, my mate Jason's already booked it. So if you're watching Jason, shout-outs to Jason McPhee. he's booked it because he booked tried to book it a couple of a few weeks ago at Milton Keynes because he wanted to come and and the Doubletree was booked fully booked out really that's a lot of rooms that is yeah that is yeah no definitely you stayed there didn't you yeah yeah well I didn't stay at the Doubletree I travelodge down the road mate for me but no yeah I went to the dinner and stuff it was a fantastic night I'll tell you one thing I didn't know what the hell Traitors was now the Clooney Winkleman impersonator was fantastic right now don't say anything though but I'm what me and my wife are watching the first series of Celebrity Traitors I'll tell you what I'm bloody loving it Yeah, it's fantastic, isn't it?

It's so good. It's before when I've seen trailers, oh, that looks like a load of crap. But it's actually very good. But don't spoil note, but I'm on it. Is that the one with Stephen Fry in it, the one you're watching now? Yeah. Have you seen it? Yeah, yeah. I'm at the stage where he's gone. Oh. Right. Say no more. But yeah, I'm liking it. But yeah, it was like generally by my colleague, Ryan. sort of is that actually Claudia Winkleman like absolutely genuinely at one point she was that good so yeah no it was good it's good it's good it's good that is so I didn't know about you know traitors I just said it looks good and Maxine that works for MPTA massive traitors fan this is spot on she said well not she didn't use that exact word but she said this is exactly and that looks exactly like claudia yeah you know the uh it was very good impression it was but yeah the food was brilliant as well it was just yeah really good night it was yeah the lamb shank was good yeah it was yeah it was nice

it was but i had a bit of mashed potato got a bit of a thing about not eating mashed potato but i had a bit of it i survived i think about my player but i had a bit it was nice what what is it about mashed potato i don't know i've no idea you just don't i tried it but i tried it and it was fine i used to like it when i was kid it's weird it's me i'm probably i'm weird that's why but but anyway let's let's let's have a chat about what we came on to talk about to start with And we'll get into your field biology as well, in the latter part.

So, obviously, you know when you came on for CSS? Yeah. How long had you been thinking about making a move into your own, moving into your own? Had it been in your mind for a couple of years or something? So, for me, I think when everybody starts in the industry, everybody thinks sort of like oh yeah I could I could do this I could do this I could do that I'd I do things slightly differently like this or I'd do it like that so I think it's a dream that most people have in the industry is to go out on their own but you know what I was terrified of it generally the thought the thought of being responsible for everything not not just not just your own health and safety and bits of it but being responsible for the health and safety the risk assessments all the stuff that came with it was genuinely something that i thought i could i could never do it i could never do it and then sort of probably about probably about a year i started thinking actually you know i only need to do this i only need you know cost assessments aren't that scary um you know especially with the invention of ai it's made it bloody easy no definitely definitely and like you said on the podcast as long as you prompt it correctly and put in yeah check it and put it it relies on how much information you put in and stuff yeah it's a fantastic tool um but generally i'd say probably it was it was in the lack of my mind to do for for my entire career really um but um i think it only became a real

official let's do this kind of thing probably yeah about 12 months before i'd say sean okay no that's fair just so because as you say it most i came in from a different route for most people i just i started with an industry with my dad and that was it i've got no prior experience anywhere else in pest control. So did your dad take you out when you were younger and stuff like that? My dad wasn't doing it that long, no. Okay. No, it was something his mate told him about. He needed to get into this pest control.

So it was a side job. So he worked at a posh estate being a maintenance crew. Yeah. And he built it up on the side until he's got enough work to leave. And that's what happened, basically. Yeah, yeah. And eventually built it up so it could take me on. Yeah. And then I joined in 2020 then broke my knee, so I was off for three months, full pay. Soid. You know, but yeah, yeah, it's... Was it so when you were younger this wasn the sort of thing that you thought you would want to do one day I didn know I wish I knew pest control was a thing Yeah I had a shit honestly I went college for sound engineering never done sound engineering.

And I got a crap job and I stayed there till my mid-30s. 16 years of waste. I wish I knew about pest control. much younger but there's no I can do about it now but my son wants to be a pest controller how old is he he is 11 now I'll tell you now there was one year where they had this day called dress up as your hero and mate I was nearly crying he dressed up as me he had his uniform he had his he got a little oak and pest control top on and he went to school. But the teacher laughed though because she looked at his badge.

Well, this was a year when this was prior to me coming on the board and helping. We took him and he wasn't at school that day. So he was down as... The badge he was wearing was Pest Tech, Oak and Pest Control, Apprentice. And she looked at him and read the day and she just laughed. didn't do anything no that's why you were that day but that would be that would be awesome if you get three generations of you guys all working for the same company that would be fantastic wouldn't it that's the idea he does come out in the summer as well yeah to have a look yeah yeah he does but that is the idea let's see I'm sure he still wants to do it now he's now at bigger school so secondary school so he still wants to do it You know, you know, when one of the questions that you asked her in the live podcast regarding getting kids involved early and all that sort of stuff.

Yeah, I think generally they're so interested in creepy crawlies at that age, isn't it? That's that's sort of going into schools and taking samples in. And my boy, who's my oldest, who's only only six, he is fascinated by it all. He wants to sort of, I've got an animal encyclopedia and he'll make me sit down and we'll talk about rats and we'll talk about mice and stuff like that. And I just feel like, you know, more stuff in schools when they're that age, definitely, definitely start filling some gaps in the industry.

I need to get him over that. He's not so, he's not so a fan of the creepy crawlers yet. Okay. No, I need to get him over that to get him into best control. I do. Definitely. he's seen Ross Ness being done and all sorts he doesn't do the Ross Ness he likes to put a pair of throwaway gloves on yeah and he watches from a safe distance but no he does want to do it but we'll see if it carries through to when he leaves I'm sure it will because it'll be a lot easier for him I think yeah inheriting something like Oakham Pest Control would be fantastic wouldn't it you know it's real i've got to inherit it first i might be director but i'm not actually a full owner you know or anything but i will be but no i enjoy it but um so obviously you've talked about that so what was the first thing you actually did you were like right so did you do a little bit of work before you left or were setting but little bit no no no not at all i um so so the first thing i sort of did was it's his name and logo isn't it that is finding something because you've got to get the balance because you want to be sort of like an approachable you know family household name for your domestics but you also want that balance of it being very professional so it can be on a on a on on somebody's pest folder on site and you know see that name and stuff like that so i agonized over name for a long time and i still don't know if i've got it 100 right but i sort of just wanted

that balance of pest smart you know it's catchy rolls off the tongue but also the solutions and consultancy bit was a little bit more about what what we do um but yeah so that that was the first First thing. And then it was insurance. Insurance was the next thing that we did. Yeah. Shocked around for that. I think we went Bradshaw and Bennett's in the end. Good. That's who I'm with. They are the best. Fantastic deal on that one. Legal indemnity is the one thing, people, you must have in your insurance is legal indemnity.

You'll probably never need it, but it can save your ass if you don't have any issues. That's the one thing, the one area you should always make sure because I think MPHA did a thing once about it, making sure you have legal indemnity because something happened and somebody didn't have legal indemnity, but they thought they had it. So you should always make sure that you have it. It's the best thing. 100%. I mean, also, like, you think when you're starting up that you've got to know all this stuff as well.

You've got to know it. If you don't know it, you're not ready. But I found them really helpful and going through, yes, you need this. yes you don't need this you know and walk me through it to get the right quote and the right insurance for myself and that's good that is yeah i think i think that's the the biggest thing i wanted to get over today's podcast as a whole is that although it seems like a scary daunting task all of this that we're going to talk about and everything like that yeah there's so much help out there genuinely like um whether it be colleagues like like yourself sean or you know like like other people around me that are that were there to support me and talk me through it or whether it's these professional businesses and stuff that everybody just wants to see everybody else succeed, I think, generally, the pest control industry.

And I think that once you realise that, there's enough support out there to keep you pushing when it gets a little bit hard and stuff like that. Yeah, no, there is. It is scary. I'll tell you a confession. for many years, we thought we had proper pest control. And we went to proper pest control insurance and we went to Pest Tech one year and we spoke to Bradshaw and Bennett and he said, have you got proper pest control? And we went, yeah, what you covered on, what's this, what's, and it turns out we weren't, not properly.

So we actually switched to Bradshaw and Bennett. So we've stayed with them ever since. But the issue is, nobody teaches you that, even though my dad had been running his business for many years it was pest control it was insurance but it wasn't to the degree you probably need yeah but no one told us that and like literally that we switched over to them but we thought he thought he was doing the best thing because oh we have companies out ringers that's i'm not interested because you can't cover what they they can this is actual pest control insurance just for pest control yeah um but he didn't know that you know he's been doing it for many years but it's like you always learn something new don't you no definitely definitely you do and then and then i guess the the next point of call was the the membership choice um obviously mpta or bpca after that was the the sort of next thing to sort out there um i sort of went down the bpca route that's fair um and then sort of it was the onboarding interviews and prepping for all that and um i actually um i i went to france um just just just before um just before i i was i was ready to launch as a bit of a last hurrah before i thought I'd be slaving away all the time and stuff like that um and I had to I could I was I was sat in

the sun and uh conducting my interview with the BPCA we'll go through all all the paperwork and stuff that I had ready for him in France so that was uh that was that's how last last minute this was all sort of sorted out and and finalized on okay so with that what like just so you can put in perspective what was it that made you choose either one was it was it like certain things you like the idea of or so i really really really really like i really like with the mpta sort of all the all i hear back from the members is about these training days and sort of you know i think is it are they called road show days or something on the road it's on the road and everybody was screaming about it and that that really sort of was i was like oh i want i want to do that and stuff um but for what my main aspect of the business is sort of field biology and stuff like that i just felt that bbca was the slightly better fit um for that um but nonetheless i everybody so sort of what the what we've done to start with is people that i know that have started business and stuff we started like a almost like a consortium where if he has that bit of kit i don't need to buy that bit of kit if somebody else has that bit of kit you know we're all sharing

pitching you know pinching people's uh foggers and stuff and stuff like that but pretty much everybody else in that group who's sort of like one man bands was mpta uh registered so it was you know there's always there's always a chance in the future that there might be a shift but i I sort of felt that it was the right choice at the time. Yeah, no, it's up to you. You know, there's both associations are there for everyone. They are. It's personal preference, like, you know, on the panel, Matt from my X5, press control, he's in BPCA.

Yeah. And I believe Carl's, yeah, Carl's is HF Bird. That's in MPTA. Oh, yeah. it's down to what you want and what you need I do think as well it's what you come into because all through my career it's been BPCA so it's what I know you know what I mean as well that's what a lot of people do that have always been that way they go BPCA or BPCA vice versa yeah it can be but I just thought just your version so people if they were in that position they'd know what to do So what's the onboarding process like for the MPTA?

Like what sort of things do they have to go through? Well, the accreditation is the one that will be closer to what you're doing. Yeah, you're getting inspection. I don't know what the actual onboarding is, to be honest, because I never onboarded. Yeah, your dad went through that, didn't he? Yeah, yeah. But if you're on a standard membership, I think you just have to provide your qualifications your liability you know pest control insurance and bits like that you don't you don't for standard membership they don't come and check your balance stuff like that and is and is that that um accreditation one do they do they do that inspection immediately or is it like the bpca where it's a sort of a bit of time you have a year or so to get your stuff together i would imagine that they they will i see i can't say for sure but i would like to think that they give you a bit of time to get your stuff together yeah they would because that's that's also something that's that's worth mentioning to anybody who's having that idea in the back of your mind as well is is that both these associations are when you do those onboarding meetings if you go for the accreditation or you go for the bpcm membership it's not a case of people are there to criticize you and go ah you haven't got that piece of work paperwork ready so therefore you can't be a part of our membership or anything like that just to make you better yeah that exactly right exactly right it was all about let's put an arm around your shoulder and help you get there rather than you know let's improve

what you're doing rather than push you away yeah no i mean i don't that wasn't the best advert but i don't know what the onboarding not i just know that the standard membership you just got to provide a normal document you'd have to you know pest control insurance your qualifications and bits and bobs like that.

But I think there is, with the accreditation version, there is an audit as such. But I'd like to hope that it gives you time to get everything in order and give you an idea of what you need to have ready, I would hope. No, definitely. But yeah, that's good, that is. So did you, obviously, did you have a van? oh sean the van okay so i don't know what it is about vans at the minute but every van i looked at within half an hour it was gone i literally would leave my house to go and view it by the time i got there it was it was sold and all gone um and the deadline so i sort of i sort of finished finished with with css and then the deadline was coming closer and closer and i was like oh god i start on monday i still don't have a van and this is saturday morning at this point and luckily it's sort of what one pops up and at which point i was desperate it was it was four grand which i think it was really reasonable for it was a peugeot partner uh well it is a nice vans fantastic vans for pest control you know got the bulkhead got everything you need for for carrying pesticides and everything like that so I was like right yeah so I went over and it's it was a beautiful I thought oh I have looked out here it's perfect full service history everything that you need you know you feel confident in buying a van no more than sort of a week later the ad blue light starts and if anybody's ever had a photo partner they know that it's the ad blue of death because there's just honestly when um we were we were um obviously had a fleet of vehicles at css and um the sort of the

peugeot partners it was just a reoccurring fault that kept happening and they kept having to go back you know and get new vans for and stuff i'll be honest we've never all the peugeot partners we've had which is only two yeah yeah we've never had that ad blue ever before no oh man I've got a bloody error at the minute, though. Keep getting the parking. You get that countdown, and no matter how much blue you put in it, it just doesn't go away kind of thing. So I had a couple of breakdowns in the first few weeks with that.

But I got it fixed, which was great. And then it's just got a few little quirks, like the driver's side windows, the button just comes off completely, so you have to sort of pull over and get a screwdriver to make the windows go back down. But I think that's, you know, all first fans are a bit like that, aren't they? Unless you've got the money to go out there and get top end range. Yeah, but you don't. It gets me from A to B. Fans are just so expensive because it's like the price has gone up. I mean, I think our last fan was £35,000.

I think it was. I think that I might be wrong, but I know that they're even higher than that now. Yeah. The prices have gone shot up, they have. Yeah. once this is finished off paying it we're keeping it so we'll see how far we we uh we just keep giving it a full service full services for this no keep it running right so we won't get another new one not unless we have to that's it what did you do for signage did you did you go to like a sign design place and get it put on and stuff like that or is that is oh it's but they were both wrapped oh awesome that will set you back a bit of money that will but i went 900 to a grand jeez eight to a grand i think it was jesus i went for the um magnetic plating one yeah you could do that yeah and um you know what it's cracking i can take it off so if obviously field biologists um you're doing work for other companies and stuff and and auditing them so driving onto site with your your pest control logo on there is not always the best idea so i thought you know go for these metal metal detect um magnetic signs take them on and off and stuff like that and you know what i love it they're fantastic they're just just being able to whip it off and you know the annoying thing is you do have to remove it for cleaning because you're supposed to clean behind them like once a week so it does increase the cleaning bill slightly

but it was really easy really simple to do they sort of all all did the design and you just give them it and they design it all themselves which is which is great and then they sort of fit into the panel so you just you just stick them in and uh and away you go and uh yeah no i i like that i think i will go wrapped eventually don't get me wrong i can't i can't spend the next uh 35 years of my working career removing these signs every week but um you know for for starting out it's a cheap alternative definitely oh no no it's good it's like with our design we always have a bit of a thing because you've seen our logo the friendly wasp yeah yeah yeah it's actually my it's not actually my logo it's a company in america um i mean pay for a license for it to put it on the van and even though i'm all over the internet and all over social media every i've never had an issue with the company i own it because i've never seen any vans in america that actually use it no yeah oddly but it's we pay a tiny little fee for it and that's what we use now never have no issues online saying that's my logo what you're doing nothing so we pay a little fee for it and that's it we do that's it sorted the um yeah it's it's quite a quite quite a good

character to have as well because you can almost imagine sort of if you ever going down the merchandise routes of just having those you know those little furry bobble things that you could getting stuff yeah you know of it yeah yeah it's a it's definitely a mascot isn't it 100 right it's better than having a rat on your van isn't it yeah

i am guilty of having a rat on my van by the way but no it is it's basically i'm thinking he customers a big rat on the phone no 100 yeah i agree i agree because i always say well i've got a big friendly wasp on the van if that helps I'll just tell him I'm doing the horse nest but I said don't tell him what I'm doing anyway one woman she like had a go at me once she said oh I think you're really irresponsible for not telling me what's going on in the house in the end I said is it rats you're worried about yeah it's not rats I'm carrying a sprayer it's not rats oh okay and she walked off I said your neighbours know I didn't tell her what I was doing I just said are you worried about rats and she went, yeah.

So I said, not rats. I'm carrying a sprayer. You know, it was just an insect job. That's all it was. Nothing to worry about. Some people are nosy, isn't they? We're not supposed to, are you? Tell them. No, no, no, no. You know. You've got to protect your client's confidentiality 100%. I just said it's not rats. If that's what you're concerned about, it ain't that. Oh, okay. That's fine. But I said, just so you know, rats are everywhere.

I wasn't lying. no no no 100 100 but um so how do you get your first client commercially commercially field biology field biology visits that kind of um so it's it again it's that consortium and genuinely people that want to help you out I think when it came to sort of the field biology aspect of it obviously I have a fantastic relationship with CSS I was there for 10 years I have the greatest respect for them and they're fantastic and luckily I was really lucky and they asked me to sort of carry on doing the field biologist work for them for in the short term which was fantastic um i also built up quite a friendship over the years with jane van daglish um so i was i sort of was helping her out with a with a couple of herb field biologist calls and stuff like that um who's who's that jane um she's sort of uh she's she runs jfd pest um so she's just similar um she's an independent field biologist oh okay she sort of supports smaller businesses um you know going for going for the um audited sites and and and helps them with the paperwork similar she's she's always definitely been a bit of a role model for me um definitely put on the pedestal quite early on in my career she took me under my wing quite a lot and supported me with my training and bits and pieces that i've

done so i've definitely sort of wanted to follow in her footsteps a little bit with that yeah that's great that is um so yeah it was it was it was it was favors it was who i know not what i know kind of thing um which which which i'm very blessed for because as i say dead early on in the podcast it's we all just want each other to succeed and generally i've never met somebody in this industry that i wouldn't want to support or help if i can and i think it's a testament to the pest control industry that we do have each other's backs and therefore you know if i if i was desperate on a loft clearance sean you know you'd come and give me and getting it all sorted i think that's just what we're what we're about the office were there i'm not scared to get my hands dirty you know so uh it's fair but i will tell you something getting me in a loft would be for a loft clearance i'd struggle i don't do them myself but if you were struggling i'm not the most nimble of people Well, as you know, especially I can go in lofts, but doing a loft clearance is a whole different level.

It's a different back. It is, yeah. It is, but no, I get what you're saying. I think also when you start as well, a good social media presence is key. Correct. Obviously, you're the king of that. I'm not. I don't know how to do social media. Definitely, with the best perspective and the Facebook post and building almost like a community on that. I'm joking. I do understand. I thought you were even the first thing. You go ahead. I wouldn't call myself an expert, but there is a lot of, it's took a lot of time.

You've got to, not all my posts are like, they've changed recently because I'm using something where there'll be announcements soon. Something I'm going to show off on the podcast. But I have done a lot of work on the likes of Nextdoor. I get loads of recommendations on that app. Now, people need to understand when they're doing pest control posts, if you think you're going to slap your logo up there and your flyer and go, and everyone's going to come running to you, no. I built it up through Nextdoor on my own personal profile of doing kind of educational stuff.

And little bits here and there. So it doesn't seem like you're on the sale because people don't like being sold to. Don't get me wrong, I still do do the posts like that, the odd time. But that's what you've got to try and do. And then you've got to learn how to deal with people that give you crap because they will. Yeah. and I kill them with kindness, as I did say on the podcast. It's not a nastiness. It's just a thank you for that information. I'm doing this in the, you know, public health. You know, it's like, so do people think I'm going through the forest with a dust bag on?

I'm not. It's for public health, it is. That's all it is. But you've got to learn. It takes time to learn social media, it does. I'll give you some tips on some of your Facebook posts. 100%, yeah. Because learning AI, everyone uses it to their advantage. But you've just got to make sure you take out all the dots and hashes and everything. And you can teach it who you are more, and it will learn who you are. So if you were to write something out in your own voice, it will learn your voice. It will.

So people will think it's you eventually. I think sort of with the algorithms and everything that links Google and your Facebook and you everything together there is such a demand to keep content going you can like you can't just go oh i'm having to not off you have to get something else so i feel like having a prompt like oh i've treated wasps today help me design a a post about this on facebook it just happens to be a little bit more i don't know um different to what you normally saying? Because you can feel yourself being quite repetitive when you're just doing it again and again, you know?

Do you agree with that? Yeah, especially when you rush the post out, copy and paste it without even looking. Yeah, no, 100%. That's a tip. No, but you're doing a good job, you are. It's not easy to start doing it yourself, because I'll be honest with you, a lot of the pest control companies that are well established ain't very good at social media. They're not. I do look at pages, companies that are far bigger than myself. They're not much better than I am and they're supposed to have a whole marketing department.

Yeah. So it's not all about how much money. You don't always have to throw money at it. Like sometimes you could just get your camera out and say, hello, I'm from, you know, your company. Obviously you never reveal where you are. Yeah. And if you see something interesting or something you will be allowed to show, this is that little clip you can put out on all your platforms. And you never know. Sometimes these little posts can blow up. 100,000 plus. My biggest one was 115,000, I think. Oh, fantastic.

Which one was that? Was that anything in particular? Don't block the bloody hole, basically. What's nests? Oh, yeah. But none of them blew up this year. It was the year before it blew up. But on TikTok, it didn't blow up. Nothing blows up on my buddy TikTok anymore. I swear to God, it's not the same TikTok.

TikTok used to be easy to get thousands of views. But maybe I'm doing something wrong. But social media is not the easiest. but one thing I do think that people that have pest control companies, if you want to damage your reputation, just stick up all the dead animals you want up there, any traps. You'll soon do some damage. You will. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not. If I did that in my area, God, I think we'd get crucified. Yeah. You know, it's a thing that I understand people have to learn and people have to learn what it actually is, but they don't want to see it a lot of the time.

But I know that's kind of, is that a woke thing or not? I don't think it is. It's just you've got to learn how the algorithms work. But then sometimes someone could do that and then the post blows up completely. Yeah. But then you don't know if you'll lose your bloody account either. It's risky. yeah yeah definitely different content it's like say you've got a dog that rats now showing it rassing properly is absolutely that's educational but then a lot of people hate that too it's a hard one yeah but then also it's like it's i feel like if it if it wasn't shown it would kill new talent coming through because it sort of people see it and think that is that's something i could do or that's really interesting i want to give that a go and i feel like it you know i i i watch the videos of um i don't know who it is that goes i can't can't give you a name but it's like in in the streets yes yes it's billy burrows yes that's that's the one and it's fantastic fascinating stuff and it's just like how hard he's worked to train those dogs jesus that's like you know that is they they stop when he tells them to stop and you can just see that it's an actual skill not just releasing dogs at rats you know what i mean exactly exactly but yeah social media is a big part and it's just something you got to learn on because like a lot of my content is scheduled currently but although it's scheduled it's not the best content but it's working uh oh i can't tell you if that's converting into business but i will tell you over the past couple of years with me

ramping up doing social and now with us getting our new website um and me doing blogs and stuff like that i will say that i think our work has increased because of what i'm doing yeah like now I got called a celebrity on, you know, next door. Yeah. And she goes, oh, you're the next door celebrity. I said, no, I'm not. Yeah, you are. I said, I'll take it. Because I was so well known. You got to. You got to, Sean. But, yeah, it's just things like that. I mean, we are a website. Did you make that or did someone build it for you?

No, made it all myself. Made it twice, actually. Once on Ionis, which was. very very painful because i think i think what you've got to do as well is is decide what you want your website to be because each of these platforms is tailored for different people so i only found out after i'd signed up for ionis and bought all the domains and everything like that that's more for sort of journalists and and people like that side of side of the thing because all the all the um the templates and the blocks and the stuff that you can use it's very sort of tailored for that for that area um i had to get um somebody to come and help me because i was just like why can't i get this ionist website to work or anything like that and they were like oh it's not really for what you're after so i ended up on squarespace now i love squarespace i think squarespace is absolutely fantastic the only thing that lets you down on squarespace is that it doesn't automatically seo so search engine optimize you have to do all that optimization yourself which I'll add you to a little secret that none of the others do either really?

none of them will do your SEO for you yeah there is tools built in like Rank Math and stuff like that but I've got Rank Math but if you look because I heavily look into it because you've got SEO you've got GEO and you've got AEO so a lot of the other two offer AI pick you up on ai um and there's no correct formula everyone says they know the correct formula to get you the issue is if you want someone to really do your seo you can be looking anywhere from 400 quid to 2 000 3 000 pound a month yeah yeah i think it's a trap a lot of people fall into is is paying people to do that when you actually you can do it yourself you just need to believe in yourself that you can do it you know there's online videos to help you there's places that can point you in the right direction and with a bit of trial and error you can save yourself a lot of cash can't you you know i have um yeah it ranks more than it used to uh have you connected it connected it to the google yeah yeah see that was something i needed help with and then and then i paid for a google sponsored ad which i wish i wish i hadn't done um because it just cleaned out my bank account without without anything because there's no again there's

no clear instructions on no there aren't how to do it um and therefore i sort of did it and then i had all these companies going you know you're doing this wrong you know you pay us pay us and we'll sort it for you and i um and i didn't i just took it down but then i started focusing more on search engine optimizing the website and co-pilot again to to and there are other ais out there but co-pilot on the side of the website saying how do i optimize this better and it giving you some instructions try making a single page on this try doing this try doing that and bit by bit by bit i managed to get number one in chef shed i was a very happy one number one on what what do you type in uh pest control you want to try press control near me well that's it that's that's that you have to try and get that but i mean i feel like when it comes well there yeah i feel like when it comes to the search engine optimizer you need to try and have a narrower net would you agree like rather than trying to be too generic because then you get lost if you choose right i want to be number one search result in that area and then tailor all your search engine optimization towards that that's slightly better i i don't know that's that was my opinion oh no you are right you've

just got to try and do multiple different things but oh it's a good site have you got a blog and try and go on site all day and do field barges visits it's like whoa have you got a blog i do have a blog. I called it Best Smart News. Oh, there we go. Best Smart News. Oh, well done. Yes. Getting in there with the Best Perspectives live.

I have to put it in, mate. There's also widgets that you can get. Goodness, your blogs are little, aren't they? Wow, that's little.

All right. okay i do the minimum of 600 words i do really yeah that's what it recommends ai you also want to drop some links in there too as well to your internally and then externally to say you've got you know to the bpca your bpca member and stuff like that but you'll learn over time ai will make you better at learning what you need yeah it is yeah i'm no expert a lot of mine ain't ranking where they should be. It's not easy. That's why some people pay people. It's very expensive. It's learning.

It's trial and error and just genuinely working hard on it, isn't it? Yeah. No, it's good. Blogs, I'm just surprised. But they are brand new though, aren't they? This one's better. There we go. This one here. I like this one here. Bowler panels and bird proofing. That one, that one's great. that one is because there's more there's a lot more writing and it's more together and now a tip i'll give you i'm no expert but on your blogs try and use real pictures that are yours yeah yeah yeah i presume that is yours that was the biggest thing for my website because originally you know you can ai generate on on these builders and somebody told me dead early on you know you want to put your own photos on there because then you can like then they don't get but they don't ask for some money for them because the ai thing generated it but also you can name them what you want you can hide almost um more seo in the names of the pictures and the descriptions and stuff like that which i thought was really cool i mean it was the minefield navigating it but i feel like i'm getting there maybe maybe not after what you've said no you are You are.

You are getting there. You are. It's just, yeah. You can also, like, backlink it. So if you wanted to put a Pest Perspectives website link in, you could. I have with you. You're actually linked on Oakham Pest Control's website, you know, for the live seminar. Oh, really? And you're linked on the Pest Perspectives podcast website, backlink too. so hoping that should help that should help your site too I appreciate that, thank you very much you should, backlinking's massive look that up, backlinking in, not too much but it all helps it does, so if someone goes on there they can click through to your site but it's all part of learning isn't it and I think that's the overriding message is that you've got support out there, you've got systems that are there to help so don't be frightened of doing it because you don't feel like you've got that particular skill set you know we're all we're all we're all past controllers everybody that's in this industry if if we can do it you can do it exactly so are you paper or are you digital or software i am digital i am digital nice who you got i am Digital because I think, obviously, paper is not as green for a start.

And also, paper is a nightmare to carry around and things get lost and all that sort of stuff. So I do like digital. I am trialing sort of a couple of different bits of software, but sort of keeping all my stuff together. I typically use in SectorRam at a minute. Oh, okay. Yeah, I feel like that's been really good. And that's got a lot of AI built into it as well, which is great, but for sort of managing your clients and talking to Xero and all that sort of stuff. That's literally a top-grade software, that is.

It's got heat mapping in, isn't it? As a biologist, I felt like it was something that I wanted, though, just so that I had access to the trend graphs and had access to um yeah like you say the heat maps and the all the access that it has um I know I'm probably paying over the odds for where I am at the moment but I just thought in the long term rather than having to do a mass data migration in the in the future if I moved I was I'll start off with them and Craig and Thailand and the team were really, really welcoming and really, really helpful getting me going.

Yeah, so I was a fan. Oh, that's good. They've always tried to get me to have a talk to them, but it looks, it's not the kind of stuff we need. No, no. Bare enough, if we had some massive contracts and they were big and they required heat mapping and stuff, I'd have to look at something. But currently, we're happy where we are. But that fits in with what you do. You do BRCGS, I imagine. Well, as in you can order anywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. So they want all that data, don't they? They do.

Yeah, I'm supporting some guys that have only got their first BRC sites as well and sort of being able to put the barcodes in their boxes and build a bit of a trend analysis for them based on the heat mapping and having access to that data instantly is really, really helpful in terms of helping them align and adapt the pest control for the sites. And I think it's going well in terms of sort of the feedback I've had from ADP services and Evolve. Shout out there. Good lads. I have heard as well, Evolve, apparently.

I was told by Dan, you watch the podcast, so thanks. There you go. There you go. So, yeah, it's good for that. I also use Safety Culture, which used to be, well, is now Mitty. Have you heard of those? No. So that's a really good sort of free software. You get five templates that you can make and it's almost like you build a bit of a flow chart. And what I did on there was I made sort of like my my sort of quote templates. I've made an environmental risk assessment just because I'm a bit, but you know, when it comes to the paperwork, as you could imagine, so I just wanted my risk assessment to be how I wanted it and how it took the boxes and all that sort of stuff.

And I've also made sort of site specific risk assessments through them, but also you can, you can build treatment reports through it and stuff like that. And that's free. And you can have, I think you can have two users, but you can only have five templates, but you can unlike other sort of pest control software that's out there where they give you this is what we do this is the template you have no choice you can effectively build whatever template you want with that you can have your questions and and you can have multiple answers and bits pieces so i found that really helpful as well that's good that is we've got um like a health and safety portal called the work risk management play um but work risk management and yeah it's free to us because through the mpta you get a portal for health and safety we've actually had companies join just for that benefit access to that yeah yeah but uh i'll be honest i should use it more but it's also got a load of training in there too i suppose health and safety cost awareness all sorts which you can do yearly so there's 10 points in health and safety stuff alone by itself there is but yeah i need to log into that more to be fair it's uh remembering but now you've got sounds like you've got your system all set up do you use i presume because you're a new business you're straight into digital accounting yes um so are you are you limited or

went straight for limited um only mainly because i sort of um wanted to not not look more legitimate like i just wanted to be sort of the idea of being a sole trader and having that level of it's all on you your house your stuff like that scared me a little bit too much but also i imagine with that you're also gone VAT registered too straight away yeah unfortunately I didn't I've heard stories I've heard stories you may have heard them it's Alex Wade said when he first started Wade Environmental he was a sole trader and he wouldn't say what companies but they were large companies and he was doing field biologist sites where some of the paydays were quite big they were like a month's wages for somebody and they were oh no um unless you're VAT registered sir we can't pay you so he had to rush and get back registered to get paid because a lot of big firms will not pay you unless you're that registered they won't it's weird how a bit of paper it sees you as more official yeah that was one of the things he did get that registered because he had to they told him you're not getting paid unless you're that registered so he did it yeah i do in the same breath though it can you can almost put people off if you go that registered

too early you know i feel like sticking sticking back on top of your prices when you're just starting out when you're just desperate for that those few calls kind of thing it's it's difficult to to do isn't it yeah it's like the issue the issue when people go from like say you've got domestic customers and they used to a certain price then they hit the threshold too many times and they go that registered they're like oh they feel like they can't do it but I always say, because everyone pays VAT on their tyres, don't they?

They pay this, that and the other. It's no different. But we've been VAT registered for quite a while now. We have. We're on a flat rate where we get a percentage of the VAT and the VAT people take the rest of it. So you can get put on that. You can speak to your accountant. I'm not saying you'll be able to, but I think it's called flat rate. I can't remember, but there's a percentage. But it's, you know. But there is certain things like that. But we ain't actually digital at all when it comes to accounting.

Really? We just give all, well, digital in terms of, we use power now for most of the payments. In essence, that still prints them off and gives them to the accountant. So as long as it's, see, this is the difference. people don't realize if you're limited it doesn't apply yet but if your accountants does all your books for you and they deliver it to the government digitally it makes no difference as long as the books are delivered to them in digital format it doesn't matter who does it okay so your accountant could do it for you so that's what we do yeah yeah so we haven't got xero quick books or anything like that we haven't you just pass it all on and they get it sorted yeah fantastic maybe in the future we may do that but we've limited it there's no current you don't need to but yeah if you were starting out probably now i'll probably say most people go for it if you are doing it now because then you can get it straight from the ground yeah there's some great deals on with it as well when when you first start out, isn't it?

There always is on these softwares. There is. Oh, okay. There you go. On most softwares, there usually is. Because they want new customers. A lot of places do deals. Yeah. They do. I'm not saying Xero deal or whatever. I don't know. But usually there's some deal out there. There is.

There is. Look around people. But I think once you're on a system, It's like when you stay on it, like you said, when you stay on a system for so long, like the data migration would be terrible. Like the longer you stay there, the more data you get. And they claim it's easy to exit it. But I believe the exit data, I don't believe it's as simple as everyone says it is. I bet it ain't. An exit file straight into your new system is going to work. I don't know if it would. I imagine it would be a nightmare once you've got used to a software and you're moving.

It's not like a mobile phone. It sounds like a nightmare to me. Yeah. And I think once someone's got the software they like, it's very hard to sway. It's like memberships. That's it. You stick to your software. It's hard to sway someone because there's a lot of press software companies at Pestec. But I think you've got to get someone that hasn't yet made a digital switch to convince them. I think you've got them then because it's the nightmare of having to move and they'll be like, I can't be arsed to move.

I'm happy what we've got. I'll stay with them. It's the nightmare of having to move everything. They say it's easy, but in reality, I don't know if it is. It just sounds hard. Because they go, oh, it's only one exit, fire one in and out. And I thought, does it really work that way in reality? I don't know if it does, you see.

So, yeah, I've got quite a few questions, actually. You know, one thing, I'll be honest with you, fair play to your website because i tell you now i thought you got someone to make it i got really i thought someone made that for you i know i uh i sat there many many many nights until one o'clock at the morning like desperately trying to get it done but yeah no i did it myself oh well done mate honestly thank you buddy a lot of people don't do that because obviously websites are quite literally you know our upgrade cost us nearly on the tail end of five grand so that's That's quite a lot of money, isn't it?

Yeah. But that's not a lot of money for a website. If you're brave and you just want to experiment with them, they are user-friendly. You know, Squarespace is user-friendly. Oh, no. The reason we were so wrong to get someone to build it is because when you've had a web address for so long, that web address and domain's got so much authority built up over the years. Would not want to fuck that up, you see? No, yeah. Because of how long it's been there, you can place a new website on it and we didn't really want to mess with it.

No, I get what you mean. Because it would mess everything up. Yeah. If you're a new business, yeah, try it. Right, give it a go. If you want to. That's it. Also, if you want to get somebody else to do it, that's completely fine as well. Yeah, but just be careful. And also, when I was doing my research on sites, please make sure that you own your website. There's actually website companies out there that once you stop paying them your site gone They own your site So make sure that when you buy the site it yours and not theirs Because a lot of firms out there that do it I didn't know that until I did some research with a few companies and they keep your site.

So the minute you stop paying or you're out, your site goes down. That's what they do. Be careful, people, when you're doing all this research. um well i was going to ask this one but i think you've already kind of mentioned it so have you had to basically make your own reports risk assessments terms and conditions and business documents which you've basically already kind of covered yeah i will also mention another company sort of legal vision yeah i've been really good at helping design contract there they're another business that's out there supporting the little guys the new starters um because they offer a package where they'll do all your legal documents for 12 months and you just pay them sort of like a monthly fee to sort of sort out all your terms and conditions and all your stuff like that i mean there's some great templates and starting places i definitely be there but the resources are there on the mpta um yeah but sort of that is that is your fail safe isn't your your your terms and conditions and your contracts and your and your bits and pieces like that so yeah again i i'm gonna do uh i'm gonna contradict myself slightly here because i'm a great believer of if you have a rat problem you call a pest controller if you need a haircut you go to a hairdresser's if you need legal there you go you go to a you go to a lawyer

um i did just say i did a website myself um yeah but people are people do this as their career they know what they're doing it's always better to have just a professional cast of eye over it isn't it so um especially when it comes to teaser season legal well it is it's just like when um because i didn't know this because like when i had bermont pete from bermont recoveries he was saying about that and he says in your conditions he says you can actually put a web link on your website where it says that if you haven't paid by this date or whatever we can recover from you and you'll have to pay the like little bits like that never had to but i've always without usually use the small claims but that didn't always work yeah there's only one time we didn't get anywhere but that wasn't they disappeared then people did but um it don't happen very often because we make people pay up front, believe it or not.

When it comes to commercial, now I don't do big, haven't got any massive sites, you know, X amount of thousand a year. Most of our commercials are paid for up front or at least six months up front. I think that's fair enough. I know not everyone does that, but a lot of the time, if you're taking money per month, it's an admin hassle for a small business, it is. They might bugger off after three months and you lose all your kit. That's the thing. So it's all got to be paid for, but that's what we do.

But it'd be a bit different if it was like an eight grand contract. I don't think they'd pay up front, but I don't know. I've never had more than that. Just a question on your contracts and stuff. In terms of building a contract, what sort of setup have you got in terms of how many follow-ups and call-outs do you include or is it unlimited if they follow recommendations or what did you feel was the best fit for you guys? I'll be honest, our contracts are very basic. I wouldn't say it's like a contract like you've got.

I would say it's within reason, we all go and see people. It's very loose. but it's not it's not like a lawyered up contract i'll just put 12 visits a year on them but i put compliment there can be some complimentary visits can be added as well yeah yeah i wouldn't say it's gone to the level you have i wouldn't i want to but i haven't Yes. I think sometimes it's to my detriment in the fact that I try to, I try to be like as possible. I feel sometimes like it costs me a lot more money, you know. Yeah, because we generally, if it's in, you know, we're going out, but like if it happens a lot, we'll just say you're going to have to pay.

You have to pay. but generally then they pack it in it's people trying it on because it's not sometimes it's not an iron clout contract it's more in the invoice price i write it all out that's what you're getting so it's not i know like most people do like a contract contract but it clearly states what you're getting yes yeah and what you're covered for and all that sort of stuff most contracts are just basic rodents who don't want to pay for anything more. I've got one school and I covered them for ants in the summer.

I'm hoping next year that it ain't the year of the ants. Because the year of the ants this year, I tell you, in my area, there was loads of ant work. Was it bad? Usually. Usually we get nothing. I found the summer just in general very quiet this year. It was almost like a ghost town a bit, wasn't it? Well, not for you clearly. I was talking to the other lads around here and stuff and they they said it was like a ghost town they didn't have much either it was uh stuff but it weren't it weren't we didn't we done all right we did all right um wouldn't say it was record numbers but i think we had a fairly good was season compared to others yeah i can't give you an actual number i don't count them i should really through the software but i don't Don't count them.

But it's nothing record-breaking, but I think it went on longer. Because the people, oh, I left the wasp's nest. I thought it would die now they're coming in the house.

So your fault, basically. That's what I told them. A nice one. They think it's going to die out and it's not. But when we had mice and rats throughout the summer anyway, and then we had the wasps and then starting to get some moles now. not too many though but no it's it's been alright so how do you how do you go about how did you know what to charge somebody like for a field biologist or do you just go for what you hear the standard rate is so what I what I generally do is I'm not asking you to reveal it I'm just saying no no no I've been completely completely open um yeah i look at i look at travel time and then i just look at look at my costs really um in terms of actually should yeah as um how much am i paying for software divide that by yeah so i do i add up the whole year divided by 52 which gives me how much i'm spending a week and then divide that by five which gives me how much i need to make for a day um and then what i do is i put 20 on top and then charge the mileage and that's it yeah okay that's fair there you go people if you don't know what to do follow that advice so i wouldn't know what to do what to do i wouldn't but there we go i do now i think i feel like it's got to be it's got to be um it's got to be fair because i mean in terms of field biology obviously you've got we've got to be competitive because it's you that's winning the contract if you get what i mean we can't go in go in do you know what 700 pound a day because it would impact on you guys getting the contract

because you know there's other people that wouldn't do that um so i feel like you've got to be fair on your pricing and you've got to be fair on you know the the support and stuff um as you knew from before i often charge half a day and then i end up being there all day just because i can't stop yeah so it's my fault i just keep giving away so much for free since i went on my own short it's so bad well you want to just say i can't do half a day i only do a full day because i'll just be there the entire day yeah i'll just be there i just i'll find something and then i'll get really interested in it and i'll go and get my books out of the van and before i know it i'm there all day um sort of also been getting quite a lot of um domestic calls because i think there's a there's a market a little bit for field biology support for domestic people um so okay yeah definitely i mean i feel i feel like there's there's a lot i've been approached by a number of people that sort of had not not not for any fault of their own but multiple pest control companies out they've gone they've had a look and they've not really sort of got anywhere with it so then i've had people come and say look we've seen that you're a field biologist can you come

and have a look and just have a look at all all the reports from all the different companies and do me a bit of a trend and a bit of identification from that and i always were right i'm going to charge for this one i just never do because by the time i get really i've done yeah i've just chatting i've just chatting to him i've had a cup of tea with him we've had a bit of a poke around we've identified a couple of bits that maybe were overlooked um and then i'll be like i'll come have a look and then we'll talk about price afterwards and then i'm there and i just i just end up going don't worry about it because i because you bond with that client i i think i thought of that is one of my uh my biggest weaknesses at the moment of owning you got a google my business sorry have you got a google my business what's google my business google profile oh yes yes i have yes what you should say is won't charge you give us a good google review give us a good google review well at least you get something out of it then yeah definitely i mean it's it it's just i don't know it's just in my nature a bit to be a bit more like i want to help these people out you know and then i just do it in my own detriment which i think is which is one thing that it all

in all of my career of pest control i've had some i've had a surveyor i've had somebody that's gone and negotiated that price first yeah this has been a big step out for me and then yeah i just i end up going and then people pull on my heartstrings

like today i went out and a guy's been um bitten by insects for years and years and years and years in his house and he's had multiple people out there's people come and put bed bug monitors out there's people that came and put flea monitors out um he's been to the doctors for scabies and all that sort of stuff and he's started he was starting to feel like he had delusional parapsychosis so i went over it was a local went over and it's um it's the static discharge from the carpet he has a big nylon carpet um he's got crocs that he wears constantly inside and he's just generating that and um said to you you just just need anti-static spray treatment mate that's it that's it um and he was like it was like oh how much are you i was like don't worry about it

so yeah but no that that there happens a lot yeah the static but a lot of people don't think about the static yeah is it right that it can be warm i was told by somebody warm water with comfort and that will do the same job is that right or not i would i got told i would always use stuff properly um just purely just purely because i've never done that by the way i was told that i was uh i know that i know it the chemical has something like a ph 8 um alkaline mix um but i don't know what's in it mate to be fair um no that's fine but yeah no but yeah it was like it was just over the moon with that and it just found now he's realized that he's not crazy yeah he's not been getting bitten he's been getting you've yeah but that's all like i think that was the that's also something that sort of phil barge's biologists can offer is just that opportunity because because we're not going as pest controllers we're going as um sort of sort of in that role to try and help and try and guide it it means that you're not necessarily always looking for um a pest to be responsible i was i was there for an hour i went through all the all the reports i went around his whole house i checked his bed asked him the questions about

have you got any pets and worked through every pest species that could have been there and and the reason why you know and the answer was no and then i sort of got my hands and knees and was actually like looking at the carpet turned slightly saw the crocs on and then i saw all the all the parkles in the carpet like sticking to the crocs and i was like well that's your issue there but have you been getting a lot of sort of flower beetle as well at minute flower beetle yeah lots of domestic flower beetle issues.

No. It's all on Facebook groups and stuff like that because I've done a couple for those and it's ended up being beehives in the loft that have died and flower beetle have infested them like crazy and then they're just getting all the flower beetle dropping into the bedroom through the light fittings and stuff like that which has been really cool. No. No, not so far. It's been to three of them over the last two weeks. I hope you charged for them yeah one or two you need to get harder I know I need to get tough Sean I need to get tough or even just charge a little bit 50 quid 80 quid something like that yeah your time's valuable I know I'll go to another one for free tomorrow get a Google review I'll get a Google review that's what you want to do because you can build it in google reviews it help yeah yeah i've got 118 i have but you don't need that money you don't need fat some people have thousands but don't need that money you don't but um i can imagine you doing that not wanting to charge

yeah you know but uh no it's um get your name out there you don't know they could recommend you for definitely definitely there's always there's always that karma argument and that you put it out there you get something back eventually so will you do actual treatments so what i decided what my sort of business model was was sort of field field biology and and domestic work um i feel like if i went down the commercial route i don't know if all the pest control companies would trust me do you get what i mean so if if i do do they think i'm going to therefore go and take take their stuff so this is what what a previous guest was saying ah what's his name jim england he does birds and he says because obviously he says oh he says say for instance we're working for you Sean subcontracting for a commercial client we're netting the roof and say the chap from across the road comes along and says can you do this for me I'm having an issue now he says some companies actually won't tell you that right and say oh I'll just do it through my own company yeah but he says what if you come back two weeks later on your visit and think, what the hell's Jim's crew doing here?

Yeah, yeah. So she says, because we wouldn't have been there about your lead. So he says, we will tell you and you price it while you're there and things like that. Yeah. That's the same principle, but you are right because you are right. They're thinking, well, you've got the right thinking because press control companies will say, oh, well, if he does press control contracts, he'll feel buyers or site then try and nick it yeah i do get that i do yeah so i thought it was very important to sort of from day one to say right if i'm going into these these sites where i'm doing field barges visits then i don't try and acquire any of those myself so i can stay that sort of independent um i do do sort of lots of routines like people sort of come to me and ask me to do sort of routine visits for them so i do do effectively subcontracting visits because it's just part and parcel of where i am so i travel up to do their field barges but they've also got a few contracts around me um to save them sending a technician down i'll i do them as well so i i do do keep handing in routine and inspections and and all that sort of stuff but nothing nothing for myself the main the main bit is as i say field barges inspections and and domestic domestic work because i feel like you know there's enough of that to go around and it's not really standing on anybody's toes like you know they ring me for a rat job instead of them it's not i haven't pushed them out or anything like that you know so yeah exactly exactly that

yeah you've got some good points you have um on on well on everything i've enjoyed the conversation i'll be honest with you it's always good to talk to you dan it is oh yeah i know i enjoy it sean 100 i noticed you've also broke yourself dan lucas in there i'm expecting i'm expecting your linkedin to change eventually to say yeah instead of instead of daniel if it's daniel i feel like i'm in trouble with my mom or something like that i think i don't need to change it to that yeah i will also put on that um you know during the um the live podcast when when kyle was saying he was probably the youngest on the board.

I am only 35. I may look haggard, but I am only 35.

Carl? Is that what he... Yeah, he said, I think I'm the youngest here. I was like, no, I don't know. Hold on a minute. Wait a minute. Let's have a look. I've got Carl on Facebook, I think. Carl. Yeah, I have. Hold on. Right. When was your... What year are you born? 1991. you are no he's younger than you is he I'm no good at maths but tell me 11th of October 1988 oh no no I'm younger than him yeah you are sorry you are so you were youngest there I'm 41 so I knew I wasn't youngest that's why I didn't say anything there you go So, yeah, I'm going to tell you how.

It's just all the years of pest control have made their way on me, mate. I'll say the youngest is... A lot of the great issue is the beard business. Yeah, that's it. It's like on the Beauties and Beasties. It's like... Do you watch that podcast sometimes? Yeah, yeah, occasionally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who do you think the youngest on the panellists out of Hugh, Alex and Sean? I don't know I don't know if I'd be able to they all look about the same age I'd say I don't think anybody looks particularly older or younger to be fair a very diplomatic answer I know but that's what I'm going for Alex is the youngest he's not even 40 yet oh okay but everyone presumes because he's got this big beard and you know he's they do but he's not I got to actually tracked him at just going into pcm but i had a little chat to him because he's a very busy bloke but first time i had a proper conversation with him for a little bit it was yeah but yeah it seems nice but that's another way you you go a pcm network with people i don't know if that gets you any work or not i don't know i mean it's just again just making people aware of what you're doing and where you are.

There's always going to be these big contract wins, which is a little bit inconvenient for your guys, isn't they? So if you've got somebody in the back pocket that you knew from the PCN who covers that area, it's always nice to have those contacts, isn't it? And this is what I say. It goes back to the fact that everybody wants everybody else to succeed. And that's what I found overwhelmingly, is that people left Ryan Centre are more than happy to pass you a bit of work to see you over or here or there.

And it's just having those opportunities to meet people, chat to people is how you build those contacts. Exactly. It's so true. And anyone who's watching, you can contact Dan. You can. I think the last podcast helped you get a bit of work too. I think very new company I think it did but yeah they came out in force to support you, the CSS lads they were all there every single one of them came to watch the live one I thought that was so cool and they'll probably watch this podcast too there's nothing there's no bad feelings I've always been massively supported by everybody there I just felt like it was the right time for me and my family to get out and have a go myself.

So that's what I did. No, that's fair. That is. That is. But no, I think we've covered pretty much most of it. Yeah. We have. We go for an hour and 40 minutes. Oh, yeah, we have. They don't normally go this long if you've watched in recent times. That tells you how good the conversation's been because although I've got little questions here and there, I haven't needed to go for them. We've naturally flowed through a lot of it. We have. In fact, all of it, I'd say. So would you like to give your business a shout out?

tell them what you offer you know you could help other pest controllers and companies etc you could yes pest smart solutions and consultancy um here to support you with any um any auditing needs um available to sort of come out with the lads and give them a bit of one-to-one training if you feel like they would benefit from that um and also available for all the um all your paperwork and help you review that, make sure that's all in line for any upcoming audits. Always very approachable. So just feel free to reach out and I'm always available.

There you go. There you go. Did you feel comfortable saying that? No, I see. I'm more than happy to talk about other things. When it comes to myself, it's like, oh, okay, here we go. I did actually have a question on that. Do you feel uncomfortable promoting yourself? and I thought I'm going to make him promote himself at the end and see what he says. And then ask the question.

You'll get more and more used to it, you will. I feel like everybody secretly has a bit of imposter syndrome, don't they? I do. I do. I don't because a lot of the time I'm not always putting in what I think because a lot of the podcasts I let the guests talk. But I am trying to put more of what I think into the podcast now. try and give a bit of my view as well but yeah although what i do i don't if everyone i don't think i know everything i don't know anything but i i learn and that's all i can do so if anyone thinks i do this podcast because i think i know everything i don't i do this podcast so everyone can learn as along with myself because we're all learning if you say you there's nothing to learn you don't know what you're talking about there's always something to learn there is but yeah that was an excellent podcast that was so definitely I'll just end the show if you stay on the line for a minute I'll just end the recording thanks everyone and I will see you all next week there'll be a podcast next week I don't know who yet, but I can't remember.

So thanks, everyone, and thanks, Dan, for coming on. That was great of you. Thank you, everyone.

089:Starting a Pest Control Business: Taking the Leap with Dan Lucas

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